Hydroxyethyl Cellulose - Chemists Corner

Hello guys, I need help.

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I have failed so many samples now, I think it’s time to borrow your brains.
I’m having problem with thickening my surfactant system with HEC.

Formula is around this:

Phase A
69.5% Water
12% Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate 
12% Cocamidopropyl betaine
4% Coco glucoside
1% Euxyl PE

Phase B
1.5% HEC 

Phase C
q.s. Sodium Hydroxide 30% to pH>8

1) I combine phase A under low shear (overhead mixer) until homogenous.
2) I add slowly HEC until fully dispersed and homogenous. Mix under low shear for another minute or two. ( I’m making sure pH is<7 )
3) Add phase C to pH > 8 (usually end up around 9)
4) I mix and mix and mix. (I do not lower the pH to get the HEC time)

I come next day and there is this HEC layer floating on the top or sitting on the bottom. 

I tried mixing it for longer, shorted, increasing pH higher. 
Nothing helped. Am I missing something? 

Thanks guys!

In my experience hec is not very compatible with glucosides.

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it is not compatable with high amount of surfactants. I made 3% surfactant and it worked, 10% surfactant and it didn’t work so i didn’t use hec in shampoo after that. 

It cant give you that 5-10k cst viscosity in any amount. So HPMC is a much better option. Can give up to 200k cst viscosity, support high surfactants and is less expensive. Although this is also not very compatible with glucosides.

Thanks guys. @ketchito @Mondonna @Abdullah @Perry
I agree with Perry it does dissolve better in cold water. 

From my study with IPCS adding HEC before the surfactants is a no no. 
As those surfactants contain water too, the gum would not hydrate with all water available and after adding additional water (with surfactants) it will separate. But it is actually happening now. So will definitely try it. 
Thanks again  

@Paprik Just out of curiosity, did you add some base before adding surfactants (and after mixing and hydrating the polymer)? Since these polymers are highly hygroscopic, manufacturers add a layer of acidic mantle to “delay” hydration (that’s what the “R” stands for when you see the material code). So, adding a base helps get rid of the mantle, speeds hydration, and increases both viscosity and clarity. But mainly, it helps the polymer to expand, and this is crucial since when you add surfactants, there’ll be no room for the polymer to expand properly and interact with surfactants (a lack of polymer expansion might prevent a proper polymer-surfactant interaction, causing separation). 

@ketchito, yes I did. 
Yesterday I tried your method, adding HEC before anything else. I mixed til properly suspended and add a few drops of Sodium Hydroxide. To pH around 8 - 9. Waited until it cleared and thick gel formed (10 - 15 mins I think). Mix for couple more minutes and add my surfactant blend. Mixed til homogenous, mixed a bit more and adjusted the pH to 5.5 - 6.0. 

This morning (half an hour ago ) I went to my lab and … that damned separated layer was there.

I’m starting to think the HEC won’t be compatible with this load of surfactants maybe. I have Methocel, but wasn’t playing with it yet. Only ones and it didn’t go into the water easily like HEC, so I kind of gave up on it Guess big mistake. 

Whenever I used HEC in my water based formulas (serums, cleansers…etc) I will take a portion of the water (usually about 10-15% of total water) and heat it to 60C on a hot stir plate. When the water gets to about 50C I’ll add all the HEC to it.  When it hits 60C the HEC absorbs like lighting into the water and forms a jelly type substance.  Depending on your HEC/water ratio the jelly will be thicker or thinner.  After I’m done formulating everything, I’ll add that HEC jelly back into the formula while I’m mixing (high shear mixer like Silvers) after everything else (mix for about 4-5 minutes) and before any surfactants.  My typical HEC usage is between 0.2% and 0.7%.   Your 1.5% seems super high.

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